1) Describe Holden´s relationship to:
- Spencer
- Ackley
- Jane Gallagher
- Stradlater
3) Is Holden sometimes lying to us, or perhaps just exaggerating the truth? Give examples.
4) Comment on his relationship to the opposite sex.
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1)
ReplyDeleteMr. Spencer is Holden's teacher. I think that Holden respects him, otherwise he wouldn't have visited him before he left Pencey.
Ackley lives next door in the dorm. I believe that he is the only real friend Holden has, eventhough he's not admitting it.
Jane Gallagher lives in Holden's old neighbourhood. Holden seems to have a crush on her. But that's my opinion.
Stradlater is Holden's roommate. I think he likes him, and would like to be like him.
2) I think that Holden is in love with Jane Gallagherm and that is why he reacts the way he does. He doesn't like the way Stradlater is treating Jane.
3) Holden is lying to the other characthers in the book, to hide the truth about himself. I don't think is is lying to us, but he exaggerates a lot. Especially when he talks about women or girls. There is an example on page 66-67, where he talks about Anne Louise Sherman.
By exaggeration I believe he is trying to sound more popular, social and smart than he really is.
4) He is talking a lot about all these girls he allegedly should have had relationships with. But I don't think that he have ever had a relationship. He thinks of women as objects, and sometimes he is annoyed by them.
1) Describe Holden´s relationship to:
ReplyDelete• Spencer
Spencer is Holden’s teacher. He went to visit him before he left Pencey.
• Ackley
Ackley lives next door to Holden. He sometimes finds him very annoying but I think he likes him anyway.
• Jane Gallagher
Jane Gallagher is someone Holden knows from back home. He used to play chess with her, and she always kept her kings in the back.
• Stradlater
Strandlater is Holden’s roommate. I think he looks a bit up to him and would like to be like him, because he is always explaining how good he looks, how good he is build and how good he is at getting girls.
2) Try to explain Holden´s reaction in chapter 6.
Holden doesn’t like the way Stradlater is treating Jane. Maybe Holden is a bit in love with Jane? Or maybe he just wants Stradlater to show Jane some respect because she is a good girl.
3) Is Holden sometimes lying to us, or perhaps just exaggerating the truth? Give examples.
I don’t know if Holden is lying to us, but he is exaggerating a lot. Maybe to sound better or more popular than he really is. Exaggerating promotes understanding.
4) Comment on his relationship to the opposite sex.
He likes women a lot but they also annoy him. I don’t know if he is lying about all of the relationships he should have had, but again he is exaggerating a lot.
Q1:
ReplyDeleteSpencer is his history teacher and Holden has some manner of respect for him. He refers to him as “Sir” and it is important for Holden to be polite with him (he knocks on the door although he could’ve walked straight in, and when he tells us about it he empathizes this act of politeness). Spencer is, I believe, sort of a father figure to Holden and he is one of the few people we’ve met so far, whom Holden actually cares about – Holden cares about him, he bothered to show up after receiving the note, and most of the time he has this “I don’t care” approach, and although he does try to conceal it with Spencer, then his actions speak otherwise. Spencer manages to provoke feeling in Holden about his work – whether he is feeling ashamed or just uncomfortable then something is happening inside of him, when Spencer reads his words out loud. Also, Holden knows that Spencer always wants what is best for him and he acknowledges this. I believe that might be why he doesn’t keep Spencer quite as distanced as everybody else.
Ackley lives in the room next door in the dorm at Pencey. Holden describes him as a very revolting person, he has some nasty habits and a lack of respect for others, but they’re both loners, both outsiders and I think deep down Holden knows this. They’re both different although for different reasons. Holden feels kind of sorry for Ackley although Ackley greatly annoys him.
Jane is a fond memory; someone Holden used to know and someone he associates with something very positive. As we’ve seen Holden mostly notices the bad things about people, he focuses on a lot of negative things about nearly everything, but he only seems to have positive things to say about Jane. She might be some sort of ideal to him; she is described very platonic. He doesn’t want to go down and say hello to her either – he might be afraid it’d ruin his memories of her to meet her again. He holds onto them and reminisces over them.
Stradlater is mister popular, if we are to trust Holden’s view on it. Holden describes him a bit more neutral, more forgivingly than many others. Holden sees his bad sides; he says that Stradlater is conceived and arrogant. He describes how Stradlater treats other people and how he takes things for granted (such as Holden writing his paper for him), but he still sort of covers for him.
Q2:
I think we have several important things happening here:
We have the paper which Holden writes for Stradlater, and he writes it about his dead little brother who meant a lot to him and he clearly misses him. He rejected the suggestions, such as a house or a room, and he chose something personal: something that did not strike him as phony, but something with deep value (one could question if he is aware of doing this himself). Stradlater then gets upset about the paper and criticizes it; indirectly he is criticizing Holden and his relationship to the dead brother. Stradlater is putting a smudge on something Holden holds very dear.
The second is Jane – Holden’s ideal. Stradlater is a “very sexy guy” and when Holden tells him about Jane and her bad childhood he doesn’t care at all. Later Stradlater won’t tell if he’s had sex with her and Holden snaps. He cannot bear the idea of Jane in that situation and suddenly all the positive sides of Stradlater become less important and the negatives come forward. Stradlater manages, in one chapter, to mess around with two things Holden really treasures and holds very dear and it results in Holden simply snapping and picking a fight with Stradlater. He knows he can’t really win it, but he can’t do nothing either.
(Part 1)
Q3:
ReplyDeleteI don’t think he is lying to us. He chose to tell us this story and with everybody he is keeping a distance. It shows over and over in his relationships: he doesn’t like that Ackley is “nosey”, but he appreciates how Stradlater never asks about anything, although he knows that Stradlater does it because he doesn’t care. But he thinks it’s a good thing. He doesn’t like people close to him, so him choosing to tell us means that he wants us to know – to some degree he also wants us to like him, in a backwards way, but mostly he needs to tell someone and he chose us. The reader. He is however exaggerating a lot. (Pardon me for not throwing in examples at this moment)
Q4:
He admits himself that he doesn’t understand girls, but there’s this important bit on page 62 (it is in my book, not sure on which page it is on yours – if it’s on the same page, could someone let me know?), where he speaks about this confusion he feels, and how he’d like to not be phony with girls, but can’t seem to help it. It expresses his relationship to girls quite well and is very helpful when we look at how he describes them. I think he’s really looking for something genuine, something that’s true – not phony – and he hasn’t found it in anyone. Maybe except Jane, but as an ideal she doesn’t really count. She’s not real, like the girls he otherwise might encounter.
- Melanie
@Julie&Maria - why do you think he is trying to sound more popular to us? Is he not supposed to tell the truth to his readers? Or is he talking to the psychologist?
ReplyDelete@Melanie - In terms of this ambivalent distance you are describing Holden has to people what could be the meaning of it? I.e. could it be a symbol of something else? You are more than welcome to put into perspective.
@Melanie- your answer to question 4 is described in chapter 11 (next time). But you really have some good points and this kidding with girls, why can´t he help it? How can you characterize Holden from his use of irony?
ReplyDelete@ Sara - I think he is trying to sound more popular, to hide that he really is very lonely.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that he has to tell the truth. Maybe he is also hiding the truth for himself?? If he is talking to the psychologist, he could be hiding the truth, because he is afraid of the diagnose he is going to get, if he is 100% honest.
@ Sara - The distance thing: I don't think it's strange for a person to distance him- or herself from others after suffering a loss, such as the one Holden has in form of his brother, whom he clearly idolizes: He sees nothing bad about him, only remembers all the good things and probably misses him a lot. Especially for a teenager this could be a crucial "letdown". He could be afraid of losing someone else, if he lets them close to him.
ReplyDeleteI'll save the answers for your other questions for chapter 11 ;)
Holden is a teenage boy with raging hormones and massive insecurities. He is not the complete article - i.e. a grown up and has to deal with alot of stuff, e.g.- his brother's death. He seems to be a compulsive liar but can't seem to help himself. I think that due to his insecurities he feels that he has to make up a load of lies to make out that he is interesting and exciting. I don't think that he feels that if he told the truth anyone would be interested. Maybe he has learnt form Stradlater(?), whom he admires and despises. He admires that he is a handsome lad who has success with girls but despises how vain, shallow and superficial he is. Holden respects his History teacher and I feel that the history teacher is sad that he is leaving and can see his potential. I agree with lots of the points, especially what Melanie has to say about Holden and his views. I also think that he is a virgin and lying about his experience with girls, to sound more cool and grown up. Therefore he is lying to us or you could say covering up his lack of confidence/experience. He is very rash and impulsive too, deciding to leave for NY in the middle of the night. Jane is someone who he clearly cares about and can't stand the fact that she is seeing Stradlater, hence his reaction. Ackley and Holden are peas in the same pod, both losers/ loners. Holden actually thinks that he is OK even though he slags him off the whole time.
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