1) If you consider the ducks and the city of New York, perhaps you can compare them to characters, how and who would they then be?
2)What is the suitcase a symbol of?
3) Comment on Holden´s reminiscence of his visits to the museum with Miss Aigletinger?
4) Describe Holden´s state of mind during these chapters, what is going on with him? - include Sally in your description.
5) Do bastard guys have an inferiority complex in your opinion?
6) Please pick a quote and comment on it- this book is full of great lines.
*Julie made a sensible comment in the last post - that she would only answer questions that were not accounted for and leave those that were. Try to think in this fashion when going through the questions - read each other´s comments and work from there.
The ducks: I do believe those symbolize Holdens brother Allie. Holden wonders where they go in winter time, and as Holden misses Allie then emotionally it is winter; cold and lonely. Just like the ducks, then suddenly Allie disappeared, but Holden knows the ducks somehow comes back, and if that is put into perspective with Allie, then he could be searching for some manner of peace - knowing that wherever Allie has gone now, he'll be okay. This is also symbolized by Holden wondering if someone comes to take the ducks away at winter - someone is taking care of them while they're gone.
ReplyDeleteAs for New York then I think that's Holden - In the prev. questions we were asked to comment on the quote from New York (I had written a comment about it, but it disappeared and I'd forgotten to make a copy). This specific quote is quite symbolic, because Holden was chasing company in different shapes (Lavender Room, the prostitute, wanting to call his sister etc)so he'd feel less alone, and he goes riding in those cabs, trying to resolve this matter of great importance: Where do the ducks go? Nobody takes him serious though. But the thing is, towns at night are big and lonely and when you can hear someone laughing in the distance it makes you feel more alone. It reminds you, that you're walking around on your own. This is very much how I see Holden: He's walking around among other people, but they don't get through to him. It's like he sees and hears them through this great distance, emotional distance.
The suitcases are symbols of social class. Holden is an upper-class boy, so of course he has got expensive suitcases. The boy who has very cheap suitcases is aware of this symbolism, and that is why he wants everybody to think that Holden’s expensive suitcases belong to him. Holden on the other hand pretends that he does not care about having nice suitcases or not, but it is very clear that he has been brought up learning good manners. He is all the time judging people by their behavior. Sometimes he is prejudiced by the way he thinks people should behave, and what knowledge they should have, and sometimes he judges people by their personal characters. The girls in the Lavender room are judged by their looks and their way of dancing, they do not look like city girls, and only the blond girl knows how to dance. The boy who gets killed by jumping out of a window is on the other hand judged on his personality.
ReplyDeleteMartin hit the nail on the head with the suitcases. When Holden goes to the museum be notices the change in himself everytime. He notices that he is growing up because nothing changes in the museum each time he visits. He can compare himself to how he was the last time as he has a point of reference that never changes.
ReplyDeleteHolden keeps talking about how phoney people are but he keeps lying to them. He is actually a hypocrite because he is phoney too.
He really opens up to Sally because she is someone familiar to him. Someone who knows him well but he comes up with a crazy idea - another example of his rashness, and then insults her. One minute he is kissing her, the next he says that he hates her. He is very irrational and doesn't really think before he opens his mouth. I actually think that he is getting very lonely and desperate.
I don't think that bastard guys have an inferiority complex, maybe it is the opposite a superiority complex. Both can make people do things that are out of order. Both make you look at people not as equals but as better than you or worse than you.
I have chosen a few quotes:
ReplyDeletePage 117, line 17: “He was very smart and entertaining and all. The thing is, it drives crazy if somebody gets killed – especially somebody very smart and entertaining and all – and it’s somebody else’s fault.
I think that Holden feels guilty about his brother’s death. And in he sees Mercutio as his brother Allie. And that Allie was the smart and entertaining one. I think that is why he likes that part of the book/play, because he can relate to it.
Page 119, last two lines: ”Goddam money. It always ends up making you blue as hell.”
I think that Holden is sometimes embarrassed about how much money he has.
He does not want to show that he can afford more than others. But also he does not wish to look like he can’t afford anything.
He uses his money a lot. He always pays people to talk to him. Like with Sunny and also again with the nuns, even though with the nuns it is sort of a donation.
Page 137, line 24: “I’m in bad shape. I’m in lousy shape.”
He admits to Sally that he does not fit in. I think he is trying to tell us that he knows that he has an identity crisis. He does not belong in any of the boxes/groups of people at school/or in his life.
Just a quick note on 'bastards...'
ReplyDeleteI do think that bastards can have an inferiority complex. I think that some man act like bastards (and women like bitches) :-) because they feel insecure. they try to conceal their insecurity by projecting it onto another person. think of bullies, they are often insecure and try to hide it by bullying others. makes sense??