1) Luce asks Holden in the beginning of chapter 19, "Is this going to be a typical Caulfield conversation"? What do you make of that, and what does that tell us about Holden?
2) Does it correspond with your view of him?
3) How is Holden´s mental instability portrayed and have you altered the way you think about Holden, and if so in what way?
4) How does Holden look upon death?
5) Characterize Phoebe.
6) What are the symbolic references to the poem, children and lawyers?
7)Why does Holden want to be the catcher in the Rye?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
1. It tells us something about how Holden treads women, because just before Luce says is this going to be a typical Caulfield conversation, they are talking about how badly Luce treated his last woman.
ReplyDelete2. Hmm I actually don't know what I think of him. Sometimes he is very sexist and sometimes he thinks very highly of women.
4. Holden doens't like death. I think it scares him and reminds him of Allie.
5. Phoebe is Holdens Kid sister. She is very good and sweet. Holden cares a lot for her. She is very neat for a child and she dresses very nicely. She is very good at spelling.
Luce is three years older than Holden and is a university student now. At Wooton Luce used to tell the younger guys about sex and Holden wants to continue that kind of conversation. Luce is not interested though, he has grown and finds Holden immature. Holden has not changed or progressed.
ReplyDeleteDoes it correspond with my view of him? Yes I find him immature and sad.
He is getting lonelier and more depressed. Everytime he tries to reach out to someone he gets rejected. (Luce, Sally Hayes, Valencia, hat-check girl). He needs help!
Not sure about the references but I think the children stand for childhood/innoncence and the lawyers for adulthood. He wants to catch the children before they go over the cliff, if they go over they will lose their innocence. He wants to keep his innocence, not go over to aduthood. The lawyers represent adulthood, the grown up world, where people are no longer innocent but phoney. His father is a lawyer, but Holden does not seem to have a very high opionon of lawyers.
And the poem could it be 'the road to adulthood'?
Why does Holden want to be the catcher in the Rye? Well, he feels lost in the world, and this is very nice described in the way he all of a sudden is walking up and down the streets without knowing why he is doing it and for how long time her has been doing it. He tries to cling to the cliff, but he can already feel the fall. He does not want this to happen to other people, especially not Phoebe. Phoebe represents to him childhood, and in some peculiar way also wisdom and perfection. Hence, Holden wants to protect her and all other children from experiencing what he has experienced. This is why he wants to be the catcher in the rye, he wants to protect and guide the children away from the edge of the precipice where he is standing himself.
ReplyDelete1)It tells us that Holden is immature and inexperienced. He doesn’t listen to the person he has the conversation with.
ReplyDeleteI think that Luce is tired of talking to Holden because he basically argues about everything, and acts embarrassing in public.
2)It corresponds a lot with the way I see Holden. And I think he is annoying. He is a guy who is depressed and lonely, but he lies to everybody. In the conversation with Luce he almost tells him that he has been kicked out school, but chickens out when Luce says something. He is afraid.
3)Holdens mood changes a lot in these chapters. He goes from being happy and excited to being depressed.
4)I don’t think he is afraid of dying, since he several times thinks of committing suicide.
He is afraid of what he is leaving behind. He is afraid that Phoebe will become depressed, just like he did when Allie died.
He doesn’t want to die, he wants to disappear. He wants to change and run away from all of his problems.
5)The same as Maria, but also this: She says what is on her mind and not afraid of telling the truth to Holden. She likes to dance and being in a play.
6) I think that Melanie is right. It is about Holden not wanting to become an adult, and he wants Phoebe and other kids to continue being kids. He thinks that when you grow up you change, and mostly into phonies or big-shots. And he does not like either.
Is Holden lying about being drunk???
Agree with lots of the comments. Holden is growing up but still has an immature attitude. He finds it difficult to come to terms with his progression from child to adult. He is trying to find himself but isn't doing a great job of it. He gets more manic as the story progresses. Is it me or do the nights in the book go on for ages? He seems to do a hell of alot of things during the night! He has a distorted view of women/girls and sees them as objects rather than friends/people with feelings. He is abit schizo liking them one minute then suddenly hating them the next - like his personality and and the way he views himself. There is one girls whom he adores and that is Pheobe. She is his connection with childhood.
ReplyDelete